Audio file
Episode 3 - Why Work with the Body.mp3
Transcript
00:00:00 David
OK, so let's talk about something that a lot of people don't realize when it comes to healing, betrayal, trauma. You just can't think your way out of it.
00:00:09 Carrie
Yep.
00:00:10 Carrie
Up and yet so many of us try. We read all the books, listen to all the podcasts, do all the journaling. Analyze the heck out of what happened. And yet we still feel stuck.
00:00:21 David
That's because betrayal trauma doesn't just live in your thoughts. It's in your body.
00:00:27 David
Your nervous system takes a hit, and if we're not working with that, we're missing a huge part of the healing process.
00:00:35 Carrie
So a quick breakdown of what's coming, why the nervous system matters, why top down or thinking first approaches are limited, how the brain is wired for survival, and why safety is the key to real healing.
00:00:47 Carrie
Welcome to the Resiliently Rising Podcast, where we dive deep into healing self trust and relationships after betrayal, trauma.
00:00:54 David
We're your hosts, David.
00:00:56 David
Carry. We've walked this road ourselves and we know how painful and disorienting it can be.
00:01:02 Carrie
But we also know that healing is possible. Here. We blend personal experience with professional insight to help you rebuild from the inside out.
00:01:10 David
Together, we'll explore the messy, beautiful journey of rising resiliently learning to reconnect with yourself, navigate relationships, and step into the life you deserve.
00:01:21 Carrie
So grab a warm drink.
00:01:23 Carrie
Take a deep breath and let's.
00:01:24 Carrie
Dive in.
00:01:26 David
In our first episode called what constitutes betrayal, we mentioned that in order to break out of the trauma experience, you have to include working with the nervous system. This is what really runs the show. Whether we realize it or not.
00:01:44 Carrie
That's right, the nervous system.
00:01:45 Carrie
Is really the lens with which we see everything we view ourselves. We view others and even the way that we see the world as a whole. So I kind of think of it like when you go to the eye doctor, which we recently just went and I thought of this.
00:02:03 Carrie
And it was there. How we they have us look through those lens and they ask us which one is better one or two or three or four. And sometimes we're like well, they look the exact same but they're minutely different or other times they're dramatically different. That's how our nervous system works. Every experience that we have creates.
00:02:24 Carrie
A shift in our lens, sometimes small, sometimes big.
00:02:27 David
Yeah. And those line shifts are the reason why people change and evolve.
00:02:32 Carrie
Exactly. Yeah, like all the new perspectives that we, we gain the little tweaks and adjustments, our beliefs change our experience.
00:02:40 Carrie
This change, so we like to think that we're logical beings, but we're actually bottom up beings, our body and nervous system react first and our brain makes sense of it.
00:02:53 David
After I've heard you mentioned many times, this top down versus bottom up.
00:03:01 David
Mentality. What do you mean when you say that we are bottom up being?
00:03:06 Carrie
Well, bottom up beans is referring to the information that is shared between the brain and the body. So this information it passes through the vagus nerve, which is the largest bundle of nerves in our body. And it's also sometimes referred to as the information superhighway.
00:03:26 Carrie
So 80% of the fibers in this bundle send information from the body to the brain. OK, think bottom up and 20% of the fibers are sending information from the brain to the body. So top down.
00:03:43 Carrie
This is why we are called bottom up beings. It's also why we have the phrase the state creates the story, the state of our body, the condition of our nervous system shapes the story we tell ourselves, or the thoughts that we have.
00:04:01 David
An example of this from.
00:04:03 David
My own life that I think will will kind of help demonstrate this idea is that in times when I'm feeling overwhelmed or you know whether it's work piling up or tension at the home like stress is coming on.
00:04:18 David
And my mind would start racing. It'd be caught up in the cycle of overthinking and trying to mentally solve everything all at once. And I just become more stress, you know, it's it's that cycle not knowing.
00:04:36 Carrie
I think it's. I think it's important though, remembering that our brains doing it.
00:04:36 David
What to do?
00:04:40 Carrie
Its job in that moment where it's trying to like. How can I figure this out like there's nothing?
00:04:45 Carrie
Like bad with trying to intellectualize, it's just we gotta work with the body.
00:04:50 David
Yeah, it's not. It's not very effective. It's a.
00:04:53 Carrie
Lot harder, a lot harder.
00:04:53 David
To get.
00:04:55 David
Get to that point where you can process and and manage that stress. So.
00:04:59 Carrie
Yeah, because we're only working with that 20% in those times.
00:05:02 David
Yeah. And so when you first using nervous system and somatic language, I thought it was cuckoo.
00:05:10 Carrie
Well, let's let's pause for a second there, because I don't even know if we've really used the term somatic yet so.
00:05:18 Carrie
Somatic comes from the Greek word soma, which actually means in or.
00:05:23 Carrie
Of the body.
00:05:24 Carrie
OK, so in the context of healing, somatic refers to the practices that focus on that connection between the body and the mind. It's paying attention to those bodily sensations to.
00:05:38 Carrie
Movements, the physical experiences as a way to then process those emotions.
00:05:44 Carrie
And release trauma and promote that.
00:05:47 David
Healing. So yeah, when you first started talking about somatic work and body awareness, it just it just didn't click for me. Like, that's not my.
00:05:57 David
Cup of tea.
00:05:58 Carrie
And it's going to be harder for people that are more disconnected.
00:06:00 Carrie
From their body.
00:06:01 David
Yeah. And so like, I felt like that was kind of out there, but what?
00:06:07 David
When you explained that it's really about shifting your state or changing your environment.
00:06:15 David
And you gave me the example of listening to music.
00:06:20 David
I was willing to give it a try and so one day I was just really stressed about things with work. And you're like, hey, have you tried turning on some music? And it seems silly to say now, but it's actually a little surprised that when I did that, I turned on music I enjoyed like.
00:06:40 David
My body just relaxed.
00:06:43 David
And my breathing slowed down. The ruminations quieted, and suddenly the problem that.
00:06:51 David
That felt so huge. Just.
00:06:54 David
A little while earlier didn't seem quite as overwhelming, so trying to think my way out of the stress.
00:07:05 David
I wasn't able to break that cycle. It was shifting my state music, changed the state of, you know, my environment, my body and created space for a new story in my mind and create a room in my mind, one that wasn't.
00:07:25 David
Rooted in stress.
00:07:29 David
And I've come back to this time and time again as I'm starting to feel stressed and I just need a little bit of relaxation. I'll, I'll turn on some music that I enjoy and just.
00:07:42 Carrie
Yeah. And even just like at work, you just kind of put it in your Airpods. You know, it's not like we can do that anywhere. I think a lot of times we think our resourcing.
00:07:42 David
Kind of breathe it out.
00:07:49 Carrie
Limited based on where we are, but pretty much every resource can be adapted. So like using the air pods.
00:07:54 David
Yeah.
00:07:56 David
So it's important to remember that these feelings and sensations happen 1st and the thoughts come second.
00:08:03 Carrie
Yeah, like think of it, say a friend jumps out and startles you. And I I think most of us have had that experience of being startled and you jump. And if you're like me, you probably also scream.
00:08:17 Carrie
Before you even realize what's happening. But then, like you see your friend and your body settles, maybe you even laugh.
00:08:25 Carrie
Because your body reacts before you even have time to think.
00:08:29 David
Yeah. So why why is?
00:08:31 David
That.
00:08:32 Carrie
Well, to really understand why we do have to go over a little bit of biology of the brain so.
00:08:40 Carrie
The brain can be broken down into three primary regions, or what we call the triune brain.
00:08:47 Carrie
So at the base we have the reptilian brain and here this is the first to develop in utero. It's also the first to come online and it's just handling the basic functions of the body. So it's the brain stem, cerebellum. It's working on like balance, body regulation.
00:09:06 Carrie
Heartbeat just basic functions of the body, so its language is sensation.
00:09:12 David
That's the reptilian brain.
00:09:14 Carrie
Yes.
00:09:15 Carrie
That's the reptilian brain. Then we have the mammalian brain as we work way up the mammalian brain focuses in.
00:09:23 Carrie
On feelings, emotions, attachment relationships. Think like a mammal like, you know, dogs kind of known as the man's best friend. It's all about the relationships. So here it's the hormone center. We also have the amygdala here. And it's the second the mammalian brain the the limbic system is the second to develop.
00:09:44 Carrie
In utero and it's the second to come online. So that starts to happen, say, starts to happen around age 3 months. So this is when like a newborn starts to smile, we see more personality, there's more connection whereas before that but as a newborn do, it eats.
00:10:03 Carrie
It sleeps, it poops, it cries. Yeah, it's trying to communicate, right? So there's a there's a progression here and the language of the mammalian brain is emotion.
00:10:04 David
Cries.
00:10:16 David
OK, so we have reptilian brain that's first and that's survival instincts basically.
00:10:17
MHM.
00:10:21 Carrie
Yeah. Survival instincts. Yeah. And that's focusing on sensation. So think sensation.
00:10:23 David
Then.
00:10:27 Carrie
And then we go to.
00:10:28 David
The.
00:10:28 David
Million brain. Yeah. Which is emotional. Yes. And then there's a.
00:10:33 Carrie
3rd, there's the third so. Well, first those prior those 2 million and reptilian, that's what we think of when people talk about this subconscious. Those are those two regions, the subcortical regions of the brain. OK, so those are the subconscious.
00:10:48 Carrie
Then we have the neocortex, which is the thinking brain called the human brain. It's what sets us apart from other species. This is where logic and reasoning happen. Where we problem solve. We plan for future. So we we actually can see future be creative.
00:11:07 Carrie
We have empathy, mind, sight. Mind site is a term used by Dan Siegel. The ability to be aware of our inner world and also aware of the world of others like what's happening in their internal landscape. So this one is the last to develop and become active. And that happens around age 2. Think what's happening around age 2.
00:11:27 Carrie
They're starting to talk, so the language of this part of the brain or words. So the fibers as to why is it that we act before we think the fibers that run to the subcortical regions, the reptilian and mammalian sensation and emotion, they have a coating around them.
00:11:48 Carrie
Think of it like the cable of you know, your phone charger that they're all these wires, and then you have this little protective coating. So because of that coating.
00:12:00 Carrie
It allows the information to go faster. It doesn't have the resistance of what's around it.
00:12:07 Carrie
So it's getting to the subcortical or subconscious regions quicker, whereas the fiber is running to the neocortex does not have that coating, so the information is getting there slower.
00:12:21 David
So we feel before we can actually think.
00:12:26 Carrie
Now when the information gets to these subcortical regions, which speak and emotion and sensation, if it is deemed that we are not safe with that information like information comes in, it's deemed we're not safe, then the body activates the survival responses, which the goal there is to restore.
00:12:46 Carrie
That safety and rational thought was out the window.
00:12:50 Carrie
Like I don't care about being rational when I don't feel safe. Yeah, right. You're just more reacting. Yeah, exactly. Safety again is the priority that the body has and is always trying to achieve. So Dan Siegel calls this, flipping the lid. Right. We the information comes in. I don't feel safe.
00:13:10 Carrie
Then we lose access to that rational part of the brain which is on the top of our brain. OK, we don't care what we can learn, and we don't care what you're saying. We don't care to connect.
00:13:20 Carrie
We care about feeling safe. That is why working with the body is so essential in betrayal, trauma, healing, and having enough safety to do that, that when it's OK to feel some activation, that's it's going to happen. But we want to feel safe enough that when that activation comes, it doesn't cause us to flip the lid.
00:13:41 Carrie
We don't go into the Hulk mode, though we still have access to that thinking bro.
00:13:46 Carrie
That we can more appropriately respond to what's coming up versus always being reactive like that idea of think before you act requires us to feel some element of safety. In order to do.
00:14:02 Carrie
That.
00:14:02
Hmm.
00:14:03 David
So this kind of refers to what we talked about in the previous.
00:14:06 David
Episode titled What Constitutes Betrayal, where you know our our nervous system is going to seek safety and there's that drive to protect. And so if your nervous system feels unsafe.
00:14:21 David
There's no amount of positive thinking or or trying to talk yourself out of that state that can override those protective parts of of your body.
00:14:35 Carrie
Yeah, I remember thinking about it like affirmations, so.
00:14:42 Carrie
I was encouraged by our therapist to use affirmations, and so I did like the traditional I taped sticky notes. You remember this. I put sticky notes around our mirror and I would recite them like three times each looking at myself in the mirror. I am beautiful.
00:14:51 David
Yeah.
00:15:01 Carrie
I am confident I am enough and and I remember going back to my therapist and saying.
00:15:09 Carrie
I this is crap because I felt like I was brainwashing myself. I felt like I was lying to myself, and so I told him I was like, I'm already being lied to enough. I'm not going to lie to myself and so that the affirmations.
00:15:28 Carrie
Are using that 20% the top down to try to create a shift in the state. Now 20% is not is not nothing like. I don't want to disregard that 20% is something.
00:15:39 Carrie
It's just not as effective. It's going to take a lot longer.
00:15:44 Carrie
To shift that other 80%, that's why I always tell clients, let's work with the whole 100. Let's you know, we prioritize the body and let's also acknowledge that there is the top down methods as well. So we want to use all of it. So I actually like using what I call body based affirmations or bottom up affirmations so here.
00:16:05 Carrie
Let's use one like UM I I can trust myself, right? That's a pretty.
00:16:12 Carrie
Common 1 going through betrayal trauma, but we don't trust ourselves. That can feel like we're going against what we believe. What we feel. So instead meeting the body where it's at just for like a 1% shift. So instead of.
00:16:28 Carrie
Saying I can trust myself, I would say I am learning what it means to trust myself.
00:16:35 David
Yeah, I remember this really well. When you talked to me about this of of just how, yeah, it just those affirmations that were supposed to be helping you.
00:16:44
M.
00:16:45 David
It just it, it felt like.
00:16:48 David
You couldn't believe them and that's why.
00:16:51 David
When this clicked for you and you started using these process based affirmations.
00:16:58 David
Admit a huge difference.
00:17:01 Carrie
Yeah, I I felt like for the first time in a while I was working with my body rather than against it, where it's like the whole time it's I'm trying to. I'm trying to get it to bend to what I wanted. You know, I'm trying to get it to feel what I wanted it to feel.
00:17:18 Carrie
But here it was befriending it. It was working with it kind of like.
00:17:25 Carrie
How you would take a child's hand to walk across a really scary bridge is that same idea like, hey, I'm with you, I get it. We can do this versus why aren't you just doing this? Why aren't you just getting it? Why aren't you just trusting yourself? Why don't you just believe that you're.
00:17:39 Carrie
Good enough it.
00:17:41 Carrie
Was way more compassionate.
00:17:44 David
Yeah.
00:17:45 David
So let's talk about traditional therapy for a second. Specifically, cognitive behavioral therapy.
00:17:55 David
Which cognitive behavioral therapy? It has its place.
00:17:58
Mm-hmm.
00:17:59 David
Right, there's a ton of research showing the effectiveness and for certain things it it works best.
00:18:06 Carrie
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Traditional talk therapy.
00:18:08 Carrie
Is a piece of the healing pie. It has its place, and there are decades of research showing how it helps.
00:18:17 David
But when it comes to trauma, focusing on thoughts to change behavior is limited.
00:18:27 David
Because your body, your that.
00:18:29 David
Reptilian and mammalian brain is is really in control.
00:18:34 Carrie
They're they're dominant.
00:18:36 Carrie
Yeah.
00:18:36 David
UM, so This is why cognitive work can feel frustrating for trauma survivors. It can feel like I know better, so why don't I feel better?
00:18:47 Carrie
Yeah, exactly. But when we learn better then we can do better in regards to.
00:18:56 Carrie
Research and so the 90s were actually considered the decade of the brain.
00:19:02 Carrie
And we had a lot of advancements in technology, which we continue to have. And with that, we were able to see more of what was happening in the brain in the body. And with that came a much greater understanding of how to best support the healing process. I mean, we can read all the books.
00:19:22 Carrie
We can listen to all the podcasts. We can do all of the talking. I mean, how much is is that emphasized? You know, you have to Share your story. You need to talk about your trauma in order to heal. And research actually shows that the more you just talk about it, the more intense the amygdala gets that it actually.
00:19:40 Carrie
Grows each time that we're just rehashing it without having safety felt in that sharing.
00:19:48 David
Yeah, that's where you've mentioned how.
00:19:52 David
Some of your clients.
00:19:54 David
They've been retraumatization by their therapists.
00:20:00 David
Just talking it out.
00:20:02 Carrie
Yeah, exactly, that. That's why there has to be safety first. That's how can we bring in enough anchoring in the body that when we go into that that thinking brain we go into talking about it that there is a felt sense of safety.
00:20:22 Carrie
That supports doing that because unless we feel safe, unless we embody that knowing, then it doesn't make a shift in this state of our nervous system.
00:20:32 Carrie
Because again, state creates story and the state is shaped by sensation and emotion.
00:20:41 David
Yeah. So that's where somatic work comes in, right? It is about connecting to the body, learning the body's language to better understand and support what needs to repair the rupture and the nervous systems sense of safety.
00:20:58 Carrie
Yeah, and there are lots of really incredible resources to do that. Things like breathwork move.
00:21:07 Carrie
Grounding techniques Co regulating these are all awesome, and you'll find a wide variety of suggestions all over social media, all in the books and the workbooks and everything. But they really mean nothing if you don't know which one to use when, because your body is telling you.
00:21:26 Carrie
That information.
00:21:28 Carrie
Because if you're using, maybe the right thing at the wrong time, it's not really going to be very helpful. So learning your unique body's language helps you to know that because everybody what could be a trigger for you could be a resource for me and.
00:21:45 Carrie
Vice.
00:21:45 Carrie
Versa. So that's why.
00:21:48 Carrie
We have to.
00:21:48 Carrie
To really use resourcing to connect to the body, that's that's the goal. That's the aim to be with your experience, not run from it or just snap out of it. A lot of times we think of resourcing as a means to just calm down and it actually becomes a form of avoidance.
00:22:09 Carrie
And that's why it ends up resurfacing. Is a lot of frustration of well, it didn't work well. Yeah, because you were just trying to.
00:22:16 Carrie
Run from it and it's not really.
00:22:20 Carrie
Resolving it, it's not repairing that rupture, but when we connect, when we support the processing that yes, there is safety here, even in this discomfort that that's what creates the shifts. This is how you authentically restore safety and break out of that.
00:22:39 Carrie
Survival cycle that betrayal trauma throws you into because we can't heal when we're stuck in survival. Safety is the foundation of everything.
00:22:53 David
So.
00:22:55 David
I mean, it's common for those who experience trauma to to feel stuck, even though they're going.
00:23:05 David
To talk.
00:23:06 Carrie
Therapy. Yeah, I have clients that have been for years and years and literally after.
00:23:12 Carrie
Two months. They're like, I have learned so much more than the with you than the years of therapy. That's because we're just working with the.
00:23:20 David
Body and now they're when they go back to therapy, that they're in this regulated state.
00:23:28 David
They're going to finally be able to make progress.
00:23:30 Carrie
Again, yeah, somatic work complements the kind of behavioral therapy that it, it lays that groundwork to really make talk therapy more effective.
00:23:40 David
Yeah. So to those that feel stuck right now in talk therapy like they're not making progress, what would you say?
00:23:49 David
About incorporating body based practices.
00:23:53 Carrie
First, start small. This really doesn't have to be overwhelming, and it's not intended to be because the more overwhelmed we are then the harder it is for our system. So even as simple as just checking in with your body all throughout the day, it doesn't have to be. When I say checking in, it's not OK, I need to.
00:24:13 Carrie
To change something, we're getting an understanding of kind of a baseline. What is your body experiencing? We're learning to reconnect with it. This is why I love the word notice.
00:24:23 Carrie
And I use it all the time. What do?
00:24:25 Carrie
You notice just.
00:24:27 Carrie
Paying attention, having that like bird's eye view, just observing, pay attention to the little things, like really simply, how are you gripping the steering wheel when you're driving? Is it like white knuckling? Is it super loose? Are you feeling the tension in your shoulders?
00:24:44 Carrie
When you're gripping it, are they? Are your shoulders up in your ears? How? How does your breath change in different situations?
00:24:53 Carrie
What sensations come up when you listen to music? Music is I I absolutely love music, and you even named your own experience. The shift that happened when you incorporated music. Yeah. Being able to notice those notice the temperature changes of the water in the shower, not just as simple as. Ohh. It's too hot or it's too cold.
00:25:14 Carrie
But what is cueing you to know that? What's letting you know? In the same idea of emotion, there are sensations behind that emotion. And I do think that as a whole.
00:25:25 Carrie
We are getting better at naming emotions. You know, the whole name entertainment.
00:25:31 Carrie
We are getting better at naming emotions but.
00:25:35 Carrie
How do you experience that emotion?
00:25:38 Carrie
Like joy, for example, we have different ways that we experience joy. What does joy feel like for me versus what does joy feel like for somebody else? It could be joy could mean quiet for somebody else, that it's just silence and peaceful and rest. Their body is just.
00:25:58 Carrie
Kind of like a breath of fresh air and like a.
00:26:03 Carrie
And waking up in spring morning, you hear the birds chirping and dew on the grass that there's just this feeling that's there where for others. Joy is exciting. It is invigorating and it's motivating. What does that feel like in the body? So it's not just labeling or or being able to name the emotion.
00:26:23 Carrie
How do you experience that emotion? How are you experiencing the day-to-day and just really noticing that, like even now just sitting here in the chair?
00:26:35 Carrie
What do I notice?
00:26:37 Carrie
Well, my hands are one hand actually is a little clammer than the other.
00:26:43 Carrie
Oh.
00:26:45 Carrie
The breath felt nice.
00:26:48 Carrie
I notice I don't like them. My legs are crossed. I'm going to uncross them. I just pay attention. I didn't really like.
00:26:53 Carrie
That very much.
00:26:56
Hmm.
00:26:58 Carrie
There is a rootedness in my back.
00:27:01 Carrie
Not so much in my feet, but I feel.
00:27:02 Carrie
The rooting in my back as it's.
00:27:05 Carrie
Up against the chair.
00:27:08 Carrie
Even just those simple.
00:27:10 Carrie
Moments it doesn't have to be extravagant. I think sometimes we overcomplicate.
00:27:17 Carrie
Really coming back to the body, learning that primary language that Even so disconnected from, it takes practice consistent.
00:27:27 Carrie
Practice. We're trying to repair a relationship with.
00:27:29 Carrie
Body.
00:27:30 Carrie
Work with it.
00:27:32 Carrie
And that takes time of showing up, getting to know it.
00:27:35 David
Again, so to wrap it up, healing isn't just about knowing more.
00:27:44 David
Right. It's about feeling safe enough in your body to embody that. Knowing. Yeah, I mean, just take a second and think about when you are feeling unsafe or overwhelmed.
00:27:59 David
Are you able to learn in those moments?
00:28:02 David
The nervous system is at.
00:28:04
It's.
00:28:05 David
At its core of everything, how we see the world, how we experience relationships and how we heal.
00:28:13 Carrie
Yeah.
00:28:14 Carrie
If you've been stuck in talk therapy and you're wondering why you know better but you don't feel better, it's not because you're broken.
00:28:25 Carrie
It's because your body still needs to experience that safety.
00:28:31 David
And This is why you jumped in coaching. Yeah, you experienced somatic work in working with your body and your healing journey was completely changed.
00:28:41 Carrie
Yeah, it was.
00:28:42 David
And you've been able to help others find safety too, and regulate their nervous systems so they could also heal.
00:28:52 David
And feel like they weren't broken because traditional talk therapy alone wasn't working for them.
00:29:00 Carrie
Yeah.
00:29:01 Carrie
Healing starts with reconnecting to your body's language.
00:29:06 Carrie
Reconnecting through sensation through emotion, through those small moments of awareness throughout your day. Healing is not about forcing yourself out of survival mode. It's about creating the conditions where your body.
00:29:26 Carrie
Knows where your body feels. It's safe enough to come.
00:29:30 Carrie
Out of it.
00:29:31 David
Yeah.
00:29:32 David
So if today's episode spoke to you, we'd love for you to share it with someone who might need it. And if you haven't already hit subscribe so you never miss an episode filled with support and tools for healing and growth.
00:29:47 Carrie
You can also connect with me on Instagram at heal with Carrie Jean, where Ioffer guidance for your resilience journey and until next time take a deep.
00:29:56
Beth.
00:29:56 Carrie
Breath.
00:29:57 Carrie
Be gentle with yourself and keep rising.
